The Product Podcast

Scaling a Car Rental Marketplace to over $1Billion in Revenue | Tom Wang, Chief Product Officer at Turo | E236

• Product School • Episode 236

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In this episode of The Product Podcast, we chat with Tom Wang, Chief Product Officer at Turo, the world’s largest peer-to-peer car-sharing marketplace.

Tom shares his journey of scaling Turo from a small team to a leading car-sharing platform that allows entrepreneurs to monetize their idle cars while providing customers with a unique and convenient rental experience. He opens up about his experience in building a high-quality marketplace, the evolution of Turo’s product team, and the importance of staying close to customers to drive innovation.

In this episode, Tom dives into how Turo uses AI to prototype customer-focused solutions, why creating a high-quality marketplace is crucial for long-term success, and the lessons he has learned from Turo's entrepreneurial hosts. He also touches on how Turo’s unique selection of vehicles creates emotional connections with customers and how staying customer-centric drives product development at every stage.

CONTENT
(00:00) 🚗 Turo’s Journey: Scaling a Peer-to-Peer Car-Sharing Marketplace
(01:52) 🚀 From RelayRides to Turo: The Evolution of the Product Team
(04:49) 🌟 The Importance of High-Quality Hosts in Marketplace Success
(07:41) 📈 Building a Data-Informed, Customer-Driven Culture
(13:22) 🛠️ Enhancing Host and Guest Experiences Through Product Innovations
(18:06) 💼 Positioning Turo in a Competitive Market
(23:56) 🤖 How Turo is Using AI to Solve Real Customer Problems
(32:07) 🚙 Looking to the Future: What’s Next for Turo

KEY TAKEAWAYS👇:
1. Customer-Centric Product Development: Tom emphasizes the power of listening to customer feedback—both hosts and guests—ensuring the product meets real-world needs while uncovering new opportunities for innovation.
2. Balancing Data and Insights: While Turo values data, Tom believes that customer interactions and real-world use cases are key to driving product development. It's about blending data with human insights.
3. Leveraging AI for Innovation: Turo uses AI prototypes to solve specific customer problems, ensuring technology aligns with practical, real-world use rather than creating novelty features without value.

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Credits:
Host: Carlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia
Guest: Tom Wang

Carlos (00:00)
Welcome to the show, Tom.

Tom Wang (00:00)
Glad to be here.

Carlos (00:24)
So I heard that you once rented a tour with flames painted on it for a road trip with two of your sons.

Tom Wang (00:28)
I did. I was taking a road trip down to San Diego and like all bad decisions, they start when your wife isn't there. So my wife wasn't there and I rented a car with flames on it, a Turo for me and my son, because I thought it would be fun. I have two sons. So we enjoyed it. We had a great time. And as we were returning it, my younger son started crying and was just being difficult and I couldn't really understand what he was saying. But I was getting frustrated and I asked my older son, what's going on? And he said, he's saying my car, my car, because it resembled a toy car he had at home. And so he was crying and it just illustrated for me, for Turo, that the unique selection at Turo creates emotional connections with our customers. I can't say this for sure, but I think it's unlikely that anyone's ever cried returning a traditional rental car. So, you know, using the service itself, people talk about eating your own dog food. I think, of course, it can uncover problems, but it can also uncover the joys of your product.

Carlos (01:47)
Yeah, and I think some people might have cried, but maybe for different reasons. Cry of happiness. Well, let's talk about that. What is Turo?

Tom Wang (01:52)
Perhaps. Turo is a car rental marketplace. So for our hosts, the people with the cars, most of the time, there are 1.5 billion cars on the planet. And most of the time, those cars are idle. They're not going anywhere. And so that central premise is the basis of our marketplace—to make better use of those 1.5 billion cars. Our entrepreneur hosts rent out their cars, and it's a great platform for them to either make money as a side hustle or have full-time independence and a gig of their own.

On the guest side, the people renting the cars, we offer an unbelievable unique selection, as illustrated by my story about my young son. You can get any type of car at any budget. At the lower range, a Mini or a Subaru or a VW, or you can go to a more bougie car, more expensive car, but no matter what price point you're at, you can get an amazing selection. And then there's the amazing convenience. Anywhere there's a car, there can be a Turo, whereas traditional rental cars are limited by their physical presence. So for guests, it's amazing convenience and selection, and for hosts, it's a great platform to monetize their vehicles.

Carlos (03:28)
Basically, it's a marketplace, or we could think of Airbnb for cars, even though I'm not a big fan of using another company's name to compare, but that's a similar concept, right?

Tom Wang (03:40)
Yeah, I mean, we, of course, love Airbnb. It's a trailblazing marketplace. We both have our inception back in what people used to call the sharing economy. Now they just call them marketplaces. But that idea of unlocking the amazing selection that exists out there and bringing people together in a unique way is something we share with them. Every marketplace has its unique contours, though, and at Turo, we chart our own course.

Carlos (04:23)
And hopefully you get to a point where people define their own companies as the Turo for X.

Tom Wang (04:29)
We’ve already had that happen sometimes, but for now, we're just focused on delivering a great experience for our hosts and guests.

Carlos (04:44)
So I see your company was started in 2009 under a different name, right? And as you mentioned, you've been at Turo for 11 years, right when the company raised Series A. How did the product team look when you joined?

Tom Wang (04:49)
It was called RelayRides back then. That’s correct. It was a fledgling startup. When I joined, it was just myself, two other product managers, and one designer.

Carlos (05:13)
Eleven years later, tell me more about what the product team looks like now.

Tom Wang (05:15)
Now it's a lot more specialized and much larger. We have entire domains focused on different areas. We have teams focused on the host side, the guest side, the risk side, and the trip experience itself. The design team not only has UX designers but also a design systems team, and we even have a dedicated UX research team. So now we’re upwards of 70 to 80 people.

Carlos (05:49)
So, you mentioned within design, you have design systems and UX research. What other functions are part of what you consider "product"?

Tom Wang (05:55)
Yes, we have product management, which is a large function. Engineering is a separate organization, but obviously, we work closely with them. When we think about product, we usually include engineering, data, and the product group itself, as we’re all partners focused on advancing the product.

Carlos (06:31)
And how do you structure the different squads or units, given that you are a marketplace? Do you have teams focused on different sides of the marketplace, or the user lifecycle, or are there other types of considerations?

Tom Wang (06:41)
Mainly, we have three main divisions. There’s the guest division, which focuses on the people renting the cars. Within that, there are various specializations, depending on where they are in the funnel—everything from the trip experience to finding the right vehicles. The host side is another major area, where different teams focus on helping hosts operate more efficiently, price their vehicles properly, and manage their overall experience. The third division is risk, which handles the protection we offer both guests and hosts, ensuring we maintain a safe marketplace.

Carlos (07:41)
I remember, as an early user of your company—probably before it was called Turo—that the product was mostly focused on daily rentals, and there was a hardware component, right? Like, you literally had to go and unlock the car manually. How has the product evolved over those 10 or 11 years, and what have been some pivotal moments?

Tom Wang (07:48)
Yes, those early days do feel like another lifetime ago. It was like a peer-to-peer version of Zipcar. The mission was always the same: to put those 1.5 billion cars to better use. But renting cars hourly posed challenges—especially with unit economics. If someone rents a car by the hour, there's always the risk of something happening, but the revenue hosts earned in return wasn’t always worth it.

We eventually pivoted towards what we call our bread and butter now: leisure travel, typically in the 3-7 day range. That segment really took off because it offered hosts enough revenue to make it worthwhile while allowing flexibility in the car exchange process. Ride-sharing companies like Uber and Lyft filled the short-trip, hourly rental niche, while we focused on longer, multi-day trips. That continuity of the vehicle—being able to park it, store stuff in it, and use it across multiple destinations—became central to what makes Turo tick today.

Carlos (09:41)
Yeah, and I think what you’re describing now, with your ideal persona on the guest side, is critical for marketplaces. You need volume, but you also need to optimize for the right segments. I remember discussing this with a product leader at Airbnb—they have their specific personas for guests and hosts as well. So in your case, what is your ideal host persona?

Tom Wang (10:08)
The ideal host is an entrepreneur. Early on, we realized we were always trying to make it easier to rent out your car, and we still aim to do that. But in order to run a high-quality marketplace, we also need to ensure that our hosts are not only capable but motivated. Turo is not a Craigslist where anyone can just list a car—it’s a platform where trust and a high standard of service are essential.

Our best hosts are those who understand what it takes to provide a car at the right time, in the right place, at the right price. They’re also committed and well-prepared. A mediocre host isn’t going to deliver the kind of experience our guests expect. Guests expect the car to be where they want it, when they want it. So we have high standards for hosts, and while they can make a lot of money on the platform, we also expect them to maintain that commitment to excellence.

Carlos (11:34)
And that’s the challenge, but also the opportunity, for marketplaces like Turo—ensuring a consistent, high-quality experience, even though you don’t directly control the supply.

Tom Wang (11:44)
Exactly. Our hosts don’t work for us, they’re our partners. They’re the suppliers in the marketplace, and they’re also our best source for customer insights. They have that ongoing, longitudinal relationship with the platform, using the app every day to make their living. One of my favorite parts of the year is our Host Summit, where we bring together hosts from across the country. Some hosts have 50, 100, or even more than 100 vehicles on Turo, and when we meet in person, they always offer incredible product insights.

For instance, we held our Host Summit last fall in Austin, Texas, and I spent a lot of time talking to hosts. They understand the product so well. Sometimes they’ll tell you the app needs to do something specific, and it really grounds you because these hosts are not hypothetical—they’re real users who depend on the platform. It’s a sobering and valuable experience.

Carlos (13:11)
Can you share an example of one of those moments where a host’s feedback at an event led to a change in the product?

Tom Wang (13:22)
Sure, one of my favorite stories was early on, back when we were still called RelayRides. We were at one of our first community events in Southern California, and we had noticed that hosts were delivering cars to airports. It wasn’t structured into the product at the time, but we saw it happening organically. So we had plans to provide more structure around it in the software, like adding a delivery radius. We thought no one would deliver a car beyond, say, 50 miles. So, during the event, I was talking to some hosts about our plan, and one host said, “I deliver cars to Las Vegas.” She was based in Los Angeles, and I was surprised. She explained that sometimes wealthy customers would fly into Las Vegas, and she’d deliver a high-end BMW there. I thought it might be an anomaly, so I asked if anyone else delivered beyond 50 miles—and nearly all of them raised their hands! That was a humbling moment, realizing that our common-sense assumptions didn’t align with reality. So we adjusted the product accordingly, based on what the hosts were really doing.

Carlos (14:55)
Wow, that’s incredible. Staying close to your customers can bring you closer to reality, as you said. There's no replacement for moments like that—using your product, talking to the people who use it. But I imagine that, at scale, this becomes more complex. How do you orchestrate that feedback loop as the company grows to ensure you’re not missing key insights?

Tom Wang (15:12)
It definitely becomes more challenging as the volume increases, but we’ve put mechanisms in place to gather that feedback effectively. One of the things we do is train our product people to immerse themselves in customer data. That includes not just qualitative stories like the ones I mentioned but also quantitative data—observing customer behavior on the platform.

We have teams, like the claims team, customer support, and host success managers, who work directly with hosts every day. I encourage our product people to have open lines of communication with these groups because they serve as critical touchpoints. We also have proactive UX research, and of course, we have a Slack channel called “Voice of the Customer,” where anyone—whether internal or from outsourced customer service teams—can share noteworthy feedback they get from customers. You’ll often find our CEO and myself in that channel, reading and engaging.

So, we train our teams to stay close to customers, to value feedback, and to couple that feedback with data-driven insights. But at the same time, I always remind our team: "We crave data, but we’re not slaves to it." Data should inspire you and help guide your decisions, but it’s important not to be paralyzed if you don’t have every single piece of data. You need to act.

Carlos (16:45)
I like that—craving data but not being a slave to it. But here’s a challenge: Sometimes the voice of the customer can turn into the voice of the CEO in a room, right? How do you balance the CEO's perspective with other ideas when it comes to prioritizing feedback on the roadmap?

Tom Wang (16:57)
Haha, yes, I’ve heard that one before—voice of the CEO. The first thing I’d say to product leaders is to choose your CEOs wisely. You want someone who values customer feedback. Luckily, at Turo, our CEO has a lot of humility when it comes to customers, and there’s nothing more persuasive to him than actual customer insights.

That said, sometimes you’ll have conflicting visions—whether from the CEO or myself—and customer data might tell a different story. In those situations, you need to find a way to harmonize the two. Usually, there’s an angle or a middle ground that maintains the overall vision while still adjusting to the realities that customer feedback presents.

One of my favorite quotes is by John Maynard Keynes, who said something like, "The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from the old ones." Often, we have fixed ideas in our heads, like my earlier example about the delivery radius. But staying flexible and open to adjusting your vision based on what customers are actually telling you is key.

Carlos (18:26)
That’s such a great quote. For me, it all comes down to creating the right environment—a healthy product culture where there’s psychological safety, and people can feel comfortable sharing ideas, even if they contradict leadership. How do you foster that type of environment at Turo?

Tom Wang (18:42)
I think one of the most important things is to celebrate learnings more than just celebrating wins. When people are transparent about what they’ve learned—even if something didn’t work out—that gets a lot of praise from me. We tested this, we tried this, and we learned that it didn’t work. That’s valuable, and it builds psychological safety. People shouldn’t feel like they need to hide or spin the truth to make things look better politically. We’re all in this together, learning from each other.

Obviously, no workplace is free from ego and politics—I'd be naive to think otherwise—but I’ve seen time and time again that those who challenge leadership with well-reasoned arguments and data tend to be the ones who succeed at Turo. And we’re lucky because we have a long-tenured leadership team—people like Anshul, Roy, Jeff, and Praveen have been here for six-plus years. We’ve developed a high level of trust with one another, which allows us to call each other out and say, "That’s not true," without fear of repercussions.

Carlos (20:05)
That’s a great indicator of a healthy culture—people with tenure who have options, but they choose to stay. You mentioned some of your rising stars. How do you upskill or coach those rising talents so they can be influential in shaping your overall product strategy?

Tom Wang (20:24)
Even though we have a lot of long-tenured people, I try to make sure that new voices are heard in meetings. One of the things we’ve implemented is a process called a concept review. In these reviews, people bring their work and show the different paths they’re exploring. We discuss the divergent paths and help narrow things down. What’s critical is making sure that the more senior voices don’t dominate the discussion.

During concept reviews, we model what we want from others: everyone should feel comfortable sharing their point of view. We break down hierarchical barriers by keeping it collaborative. It’s just three people in a room with a whiteboard, trying to figure things out together.

Carlos (21:26)
That’s great. So, for those concept reviews, what kind of prep do you expect people to do to ensure they’re as actionable as possible?

Tom Wang (21:36)
We’re constantly refining it, but one of the key things we ask is that the work being presented diverges—meaning there are three viable paths to take, not just one. We want the team to say, “Here are three options we can take; now we want your feedback because we’re leaning towards this one.” It’s not about presenting a “good, better, best” scenario, but instead showing three valid approaches.

We also now use pre-reads to make the most of our time. So we ask the team to send all the background information beforehand. When we get into the meeting, we just spend a few minutes reviewing it before diving into the choices. It saves a lot of time, and it’s more productive. People take pride in their work and want to show everything, but I always remind them: we hired you because we trust you’ve done the work. Now, let’s focus on making the right decisions.

Carlos (22:47)
Yeah, that resonates a lot. I always tell my team, "Don’t just give me data—bring me insights." It’s about boiling it down so we can make a decision quickly. I think a lot of PRDs (Product Requirement Documents) became ineffective because they were too long, and the expectation was that engineers would magically read everything and understand it. But we have to simplify and digest information to help people do their best work.

Tom Wang (23:15)
Exactly. Simplicity is key. And I think that’s especially true for the product function. We’re always trying to make things clearer and easier for everyone else. It’s about making the product work, but also making the process work efficiently for your team.

Carlos (23:45)
Well, let’s talk about your product as it evolves. I understand that in addition to your B2C business, you're also in the B2B space, right?

Tom Wang (23:56)
Well, in a way. I think of our entrepreneur hosts as small businesses. We’re not business-to-business in the traditional sense, but for our hosts, who may have fleets of 50 or even 100 cars, we’re essentially building a SaaS product for them. They’re managing inventory, pricing, and claims, all on our platform.

On the guest side, it’s more cut-and-dry consumer-focused, but for hosts, we’re providing tools and features that are more akin to running a business.

Carlos (24:48)
That makes sense. Some of the features you’ve introduced, like monthly pricing, are more about creating that SaaS element for hosts. Tell me more about how that’s evolved.

Tom Wang (25:03)
Yes, we’ve definitely evolved from the early days when it was just about renting one car at a time. Now, imagine you’re managing 50 cars—you don’t want to go in and update each car individually. So we’ve built tools that allow hosts to manage their entire fleet at once. Whether it’s updating pricing, delivery radius, or discounts for longer trips, all of that needs to be manageable at scale.

We’ve also added duration-based discounts to incentivize longer rentals, and that’s something hosts can apply across their fleet. The interface gets more complex as the fleet grows, so we focus a lot on UX to make it seamless for them.

Carlos (25:42)
When you think about KPIs for your marketplace, what are the key indicators that help you measure the health of the business?

Tom Wang (25:55)
One of our key metrics is conversion, specifically search-to-book net of cancellations. It's one thing to get someone to book a car, but because of the flexibility we offer, cancellations happen—on both the guest and host sides. A car might get into an accident or be unavailable for some reason. So, we track net conversion closely, which helps us see how well we’re balancing supply and demand. It also gives us insight into supply liquidity. If our supply is attractive and well-priced, conversion goes up. If we’re lacking supply or it’s overpriced, conversion goes down. So, conversion is a great leading indicator for how the marketplace is performing.

Carlos (27:02)
And what about other indicators, like gross booking value (GBV) or liquidity in the marketplace?

Tom Wang (27:10)
Yes, we track GBV—Gross Booking Value—which reflects the total value of all bookings. That’s another important indicator, especially in terms of revenue. Within that, we also look at average trip value and host fulfillment, as people expect their bookings to be fulfilled 100% of the time. We've worked tirelessly to increase reliability and ensure that guests receive the cars they booked.

Carlos (27:57)
Let’s talk about marketplace risks. You mentioned insurance earlier. As a host, I’m putting my vehicle on the market, and many different people will be driving it. How do you manage that need?

Tom Wang (28:10)
One of the core services we provide is marketplace safety. We offer different insurance packages based on the host’s risk tolerance. If they want a lower deductible, we take a higher cut of the revenue. If they’re comfortable with a higher deductible, they can increase their earnings. This flexibility allows hosts to choose the level of risk they’re comfortable with. I always remember a conversation with a host who had hundreds of cars on Turo. I asked him, “If you could go back to when you first started, what would you do differently?” He said, “The cars are not pets, they’re cattle.” It was an eye-opening analogy. When you start, you might treat your car like a beloved possession, but after thousands of rentals, you start viewing it as an asset. Things will happen to the cars—dings, scratches—but that’s where Turo comes in, providing the protection hosts need to feel confident.

Carlos (29:35)
Another risk that comes up in marketplaces is when a guest tries to skip the platform after the first interaction. How do you create enough value to keep both hosts and guests within Turo?

Tom Wang (29:48)
We’re fortunate in that Turo provides a lot of protection that guests and hosts wouldn’t get by skipping the platform. The insurance, for instance, is a huge part of why people stay. Without it, it would be risky for both parties. We also provide tools and services for hosts, like financing options and off-trip insurance, to keep them engaged on the platform. We recently connected our larger hosts with lenders because traditional loan products aren’t designed for people with fleets. We also added off-trip insurance, so hosts are covered while delivering a vehicle or using it outside of a rental period. By staying close to our hosts and understanding their needs, we can continually provide value and keep them loyal to the platform.

Carlos (31:06)
That’s smart—keeping the platform sticky by making it so valuable that it’s in the hosts’ best interest to stay. I learned a similar lesson from the VP of Product at Upwork. They actually go one step further by allowing clients to bring external freelancers onto the platform, even if they didn’t initially meet on Upwork.

Tom Wang (31:27)
Yes, that’s an inspirational standard. It’s about creating enough value that people want to stay and even bring in external business. That’s where we aspire to be as well.

Carlos (31:56)
You also have a unique perspective on quality in marketplaces. You’ve said that marketplaces can aspire to and even surpass a retail experience. Can you elaborate on that?

Tom Wang (32:07)
Yes, I believe that marketplaces can exceed the retail experience in many ways. Retail is predictable—people know what to expect. But Turo offers something retail can’t: unique selection and convenience. You won’t find the same variety of cars or experiences at a traditional rental counter. We recently sunset our Request to Book feature, which required hosts to confirm a booking. Now, 100% of our marketplace is instant book, where guests can click and book a car immediately. This move aligns with the retail experience of convenience and speed—something customers expect in today’s market. At Turo, we want to take the best of retail—simplicity and reliability—and combine it with the advantages of a marketplace, like diverse selection and flexibility.

Carlos (33:48)
It’s possible, right? We’ve seen examples with Airbnb and other successful marketplaces. The initial traction might be tough, but once you hit scale, you can win on both fronts—speed and variety.

Tom Wang (34:02)
Exactly. That’s the goal. The modern marketplace is about emulating the best parts of retail while keeping all the benefits of a marketplace. If you can do that, you’re in a really good spot.

Carlos (34:27)
So as you think about the positioning of your product today, obviously compared to the early days, where it might have been more peer-to-peer, now it's about giving customers what they want. In such a competitive environment, with so many players out there, how do you position Turo?

Tom Wang (34:40)
The good news is that traditional rental car companies haven’t innovated much on the guest side in a very long time. Their NPS (Net Promoter Score) isn’t particularly high, and the experience hasn’t changed much over the years. That’s where Turo stands out—we offer both unique selection and unbeatable convenience.

It’s a completely different experience compared to standing at a rental counter, filling out forms, and picking up a generic car. At Turo, you can browse a wide variety of cars and book one with a few clicks. This app-based experience resonates with modern customers who expect convenience. Plus, there’s an emotional connection with the cars on Turo—you get to drive something special. It’s more than just transportation.

Carlos (35:55)
I’m smiling because I’ve been in those long rental car lines, wishing for an app to skip all that hassle—like Starbucks for cars.

Tom Wang (36:03)
Exactly! That's one of the benefits of Turo. We're constantly working on making the experience more reliable and frictionless. We've come a long way, but we're always striving to be even better. We want to be extraordinarily reliable. Every small improvement we make in the experience matters, whether it’s reducing friction by even a fraction of a percentage point or increasing reliability by a small margin. We’re aiming to create a high-quality marketplace that’s indisputably great for our customers.

Carlos (36:53)
That’s awesome. So, with all the recent improvements—like your summer update—what’s next for Turo? Where are you headed in the near future?

Tom Wang (37:05)
The summer update was exciting because it helped us address a key area: browsing cars. For a traditional rental company, browsing doesn’t make sense—there's nothing to browse. But Turo offers such a unique selection that browsing becomes a valuable part of the experience. Before the update, you had to input dates and locations to see cars, but we recognized that a lot of people just wanted to check out what we had, without necessarily planning a trip.

Now, you can search anywhere and with any dates, which allows for browsing. We’ve also added collections, which are curated car categories to inspire users. This shift highlights our unique selection and gives users the freedom to explore Turo without needing a specific trip in mind.

Looking forward, our vision is that wherever you go, there’s the perfect car for you—whether you're heading to the mountains, going on a road trip, or need something more luxurious for a special occasion. We believe that traditional rental counters will become a cottage industry, and Turo will be the go-to solution for anyone needing a car for multiple days.

Carlos (38:43)
That's a big vision. And speaking of forward-looking technologies, we both live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where driverless cars are everywhere. How far away is that future for Turo?

Tom Wang (39:12)
That’s a great question! Turo often gives people their first exposure to automotive innovation. Whether it’s electric vehicles or autonomous features, we’re typically the first stop for many. I know you asked about self-driving cars, but for instance, a lot of people rent their first EV on Turo. We have the largest EV fleet of any platform, so people come to Turo when they’re curious about trying out an electric vehicle. As for self-driving cars, we’re already seeing some of those features available on Turo, particularly with Tesla and other models that have partial automation. Full automation is still a bit further down the road, but autonomous features are definitely making their way into our marketplace. The beauty of the marketplace model is that any innovation in vehicles—whether it’s EVs or autonomous driving—will show up on Turo first because we don’t own the cars. When there's a new technology, it’ll likely appear in our marketplace before traditional rental companies can adopt it.

Carlos (40:58)
That’s fascinating. Thank you so much for your time, Tom. This was a great conversation, and I appreciate all the insights on product management, marketplace dynamics, and the future of transportation.

Tom Wang (41:08)
Thank you, Carlos! It was a pleasure to chat. Hopefully, the next time you visit San Diego, you can rent a car with flames on it for your road trip with your daughter!

Carlos (42:00)
Haha, deal! Thanks again, Tom.